Inspired by the “star-driven genre movies” of the ’80s and ’90s, actor-turned-producer, writer, and directorMax Minghellareturned to theToronto International Film Festivalwith his sophomore feature,Shell. StarringKate Hudsonand hisThe Handmaid’s Taleco-starElisabeth Moss, this “love letter” is a darkly comedic body horror movie that examines the societal issues of beauty standards and questions the lengths we’ll go to achieve them.
Samantha Lake (Moss) is an actress, and she’s finding that, oftentimes, her career hinges on physical appearance for roles. Despite being ambitious and talented, Samantha’s slightly unconventional look is hindering her when it comes to landing jobs. At the behest of her agent, Samantha agrees to undergo the mysterious Shell beauty treatment. When the treatment produces glowing results, the company’s CEO, Zoe Shannon (Hudson), extends an invitation to Samantha into her health and wellness world, where dark secrets are hiding just beneath the glossy veneer.
Ahead of celebrating the film’s world premiere,Shelldirector Minghella sat down with Collider’sPerri Nemiroffat the Cinema Center at MARBL to discuss the film. During their conversation, he talks about the influential films of his childhood that sparked his creativity and passion for the craft, the challenges he faced even after his first feature,Teen Spirit, was a TIFF success, and why his cast, includingKaia Gerber,Elizabeth Berkleyand more, were pitch-perfect in their roles. Check out the full conversation in the video above or read the interview in the transcript below to find out what’s next for this rising star director.
‘Shell’ Is a “Love Letter to the ’80s and ’90s”
PERRI NEMIROFF: BecauseShellisgetting a film festival debut, our audience will not know about your movie just yet, so would you mind giving a brief synopsis?
MAX MINGHELLA:Shellis a sort of love letter to the ‘80s and ‘90s movies which are very movie star-driven genre movies. So there’s a lot of different stuff in this movie. It’s a comedy, it’s scary, it has maybe a creature in it. There’s a lot of different elements. But it’s really ultimately just hopefully a love letter to the kinds of movies that we grew up on.
Before digging intoShelldetails, I want to go back to something in your director’s statement that caught my eye. Your mom worked for the British Board of Film Classification and would recite movie plots to you as bedtime stories. Did you have a particular favorite?
MINGHELLA: Well, in retrospect, I realized she was probably being rather lazy. She should have written her own bedtime stories.
Lazy or inspired. I don’t know!
MINGHELLA: It cursed me to be a filmmaker, I think, because what happens is you’re going to sleep and you’re hearing a description ofTerminator 2, and then a month later,Terminator 2comes out, and you’ve already sort of played it through in your head, and then you get to see, “Oh, this is what the T-1000actuallylooks like.” I’m obsessed with film, and I’m sure it’s because of that. My favorite bedtime stories, I rememberForrest Gumpwas a pretty good bedtime story. That’s a good one for a kid to fall asleep to.
That’s fair. You went to bed on a somewhat positive note. But I guess I don’t know what details your mom included?
MINGHELLA: [Laughs] She might have left some stuff out.
Actually, here’s a follow-up to that. What story changed the most from how your mom told it to you compared to the film when you finally saw it?
MINGHELLA: Well, my mother is very eccentric, so I’m sure if we were to go back and listen to some of her versions… I don’t know which one she changed the most. But so many of those movies that she would talk to me about are present inShellin some way.
After ‘Teen Spirit,’ Getting ‘Shell’ Made Was ‘Heart of Darkness’-Level Hard
Teen Spiritwas your last film as a director. It came out six years ago. What would you say was the most difficult part about getting the green light on this one during that gap?
MINGHELLA: Getting this movie made, and I’m sure most of the filmmakers at this festival tell similar stories, was comically challenging. It was sort of aHeart of Darkness-level process, and a lot of that’s just to do with external circumstances. Obviously, there was a pandemic, there were two strikes. There were lots of things going on in the world that made it challenging for us. And we have a huge cast of amazing actors, and getting everybody lined up and all of that stuff is difficult, but I am truly grateful that we got to make it. I think whether people like the movie or hate the movie, it’s a very original film. It’s a very ambitious film. It’s an original R-rated movie with really wonderful actors and technicians putting it together, and I think it’s a pretty rare thing in the modern landscape. It was rare for all of us as the filmmakers to get to work on a project like this. It was really special, so I’m really grateful that we got to do it.
I feel like a lot of people might think, “If you did one film as a director, the second one has to be easier to get the OK on,” when that is often not the case. What surprised you most about being able to say, “Look what I directed in the past. Let me do another one,” but then hitting certain roadblocks this industry can still present even though you’ve already proven yourself?
MINGHELLA: I’m not very strategic as a person. I’m not very strategic at all. My first movie and my second movie could not be more antithetical to one another, so I was asking for a lot of trust. I’d never shot a comedy, I’d never shot action sequences, I’d never shot visual effects sequences. It’s a lot to get people to trust you. But I actually really don’t know if those were the hurdles of this film. I think thatanybodyin 2024 who’s trying to make a movie that is not designed to either sell awards or sell toys, right? Those are sort of the two boxes, and this movie is not either of those things. It’s really just meant to be really well-made entertainment and a really well-made popcorn movie. But that’s really weirdly a quite rarified product in this day and age.
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Because you’ve already brought up that the tone and the style of this movie is a little unique, what would you say was the most useful tool you came up with to present your vision to other people who might not be able to easily picture what you wanted the end product to feel like?
MINGHELLA: I certainly was going into this with such a hyper-specific idea of the visual approach of the movie. Honestly, I’m not a particularly articulate person, so it wasn’t the easiest thing to do. I didn’t think to communicate what you’re describing. And yet the people I ended up collaborating with on this movie seemed to have such an innate kind of subconscious understanding of what we were doing. Two or three people I’d love to point out specifically — Susie Mancini, our production designer, who does an extraordinary job with eleven cents on this movie, and Mirren Gordon-Crozier, who was also our costume designer onTeen Spirit, who’s a genius. Anybody who works with her will tell you she’s just an extraordinary person. Her contribution to the movie, the clothes, is such an incredible part of the aesthetic of the movie.
But then my chief collaborator on the film is Drew Daniels, who just shotAnora, which is also in the festival. Drew is a masterful artist. I think we were both very, very excited about what we were wanting to do with this film, and we’re both quite mischievous people. I would say that’s probably the commonality in our personalities. So wereallytried to approach the film with a sense of mischief and playfulness every day, whether that was how we were approaching the lighting or literally where we were putting the camera. We tried to be very, very unpretentious in how we made this movie.
I love name-dropping collaborators like that. I’ll preface this next question by saying, every single person on a film crew is important. Can you name an unsung hero ofShell, someone whose name we might not know or we don’t get to see their face very often, but they were instrumental in pulling this off and supporting you along the way?
MINGHELLA: I know that people usually turn their nose up at agents and producers and money people. What was quite moving on this film was I saw a side of people who work in those areas which was really generous and selfless, and I was not expecting it. People really went out of their way over and over again on this movie to help me when they didn’t have to — make difficult phone calls or leave their kids' birthday parties. I mean, literally doing things out of the kindness of their hearts, trying to help me make this film. Fred Berger, who’s my producer, who’s been my producer for 10 years now, he’s given everything to these films, and really for no personal reward other than to support me. So, I would never have made one film without him, let alone two, and I kind of owe him everything. So I think I have to mention Fred.
Kate Hudson Gives an Iconic Performance in ‘Shell’
You also have anexceptionalensemble here. Of all of the key roles in this movie, which would you say was the easiest to cast, where the right person magically came to you, but then I also want the opposite – which role was the most difficult to find the perfect fit for?
MINGHELLA: I’m incredibly particular about casting. I’m so psychotic about it, and I think I drive everybody crazy. I don’t love to micromanage actors once they’re on set, so I really believe in hiring the right person and sort of letting them feel like they have the space to explore and find it. Kate Hudson as Zoe Shannon, I think you probably agree, is a pretty rare marriage between an actor and a role. It’s quite iconic, the performance. I think it’s an objective thing. She does something really extraordinary in this movie, and seeing how people have responded to the performance has been amazing. It’s all credit to her. Kate and Zoe could not be more different in real life, of course — she’s not nearly that Machiavellian — but Kate has a self-possession that you cannot teach somebody. She has an ease in her body and in a physical space, an ease with people, a confidence and intelligence that you cannot teach an actor. There are so few people I’ve met in my life experience who I think can do that authentically, so I feel so blessed that we were able to have Kate be a part of this project.
There’s really not a single character or actor in the movie that I could imagine somebody else playing the part, if that makes sense. But it was interesting, the part that Kaia Gerber plays, Chloe Benson, was a weirdly competitive part. She doesn’t have a ton of screen time in the movie. It’s a very pivotal part in the movie, it’s very important to the story, but her actual real estate is rather slim. So, I was surprised by how many people wanted to play the part, and Kaia really won it fair and square. She was so selfless in how she approached it. She’s a real professional. I think you’ll find this with any filmmaker who’s worked with her, and any actor who’s worked with her, they will speak of her very highly because she has a brilliant work ethic and very little ego. She’s a really professional person and a delight to work with, so I’m so grateful that she did the movie. She was such a guardian angel to stay with it for so long.
Max Minghella Picked Up an “Efficient Way of Working” From David Fincher
Of course, you’re a very experienced actor, and I love digging into directing actors whenyouhave history as an actor. Can you tell me something that a director did for you in the past as an actor that you appreciated and now strive to bring to your actors, but also something that you wishmoredirectors gave you as an actor that now you like to verify your casts have?
MINGHELLA: I can’t really answer the second question because I think all filmmakers are completely different, and I would never demand any kind of approach. I think that I was lucky enough to work with David Fincher. I think anybody who works with David Fincher, it leaves an impression. It’s funny, there’s a sort of idea of Fincher that he does a million takes and is sort of didactic in some way. I think that’s the opposite of my experience, which is he doesn’t actually cut, he resets. You end up getting a chance to do it a lot more than you would but in the same allotment of time. So, it’s a very efficient way of working. What I loved about it was, I never felt pressure to do it right. I always felt like, “If this take doesn’t work, I know I’ll get to do it again.” I felt like I was always given the opportunity to explore. I felt very supported in that movie, and so I do try and steal a little bit of that approach when I’m working with actors.
I try not to say, “Do it like this.” I try to give them the opportunity to do it as many times as they would like, and try things and feel like they can fail. I think it’s really important that actors feel like they can fail and there’s no punishment for it. Of course, that means they have to trust you. They have to trust that you won’t put something into the film that they wouldn’t be proud of.
I love hearing about sets where people feel comfortable failing because I do think that you often wind up finding that extra special magic when you take big swings. Can you give me an example of a time on set when things didn’t go to plan, you had to pivot, but you wound up finding something even better in the process?
MINGHELLA: Sort of on an hourly basis that was what happened on our film. [Laughs]We only had 25 days to shoot this film.It’s not a movie that should be shot in 25 days, so we had to be so incredibly diligent and prepared. Every day there was a requirement to think out of the box. I think what our blessing was was the fact that Drew and I come from a similar background and a similar approach to all of this, which is a very informal one. We would even drive around with just a little camera and get stuff together on the weekends. We’re not too pretentious about how we have to achieve what we’re there to do. It was really always interesting.
There are some set pieces in the film which require a lot of practical effects, I would say. Those were really fun to do and brought about a sort of almost Roger Corman-esque energy on set as we tried to figure out how much blood and where to spray it.
That stuff is so right up my alley.
MINGHELLA: Me too.
“The Singularity of Elisabeth Moss”
Elisabeth Moss is your phenomenal lead here. Obviously, you two have worked together quite a bit, but I am curious about how your collaboration changes when you’re her director. Even after all your experience working together, can you tell me something that she did on the set ofShellthat made even you go, “Oh my god, I knew you were talented, but I never realized you were capable ofthat?”
MINGHELLA: That was my authentic reaction all the time. Again, we didn’t have a lot of time to make the movie, and her ability to deliver instantly a perfectly calibrated performance was not only wonderful for the movie but was such a helpful thing for the production because we could just move so quickly with her. She will give you three completely different versions of something, but they are all so precise. Incredibly precise actor. I just did ADR recently with her for the film; I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s like she can hear something once and it could be incredibly nuanced, what she has to replicate, and she can just do something extraordinary. I’m not the first person to describe the singularity of Elisabeth Moss.
The “singularity of Elisabeth Moss” is perfect phrasing.
Clearly,Shellhas not come out yet, so I’m gonna get greedy with these last few questions, but I do want more from you behind the lens. What is a new tool in your directing tool kit, so to speak, that you gained from makingShellthat you would be eager to apply to another feature as a director?
MINGHELLA: I learned a huge, huge amount on this movie. I found it actually quite humbling. The thing that was most challenging for me, and I think this might be something a lot of people run into, is when you have — it’s not the things you ever think are gonna be difficult — we have all these car chases and horror set pieces and all these things, and those things, actually, I found anyway, were not the things that kept me up at night. The things that kept me up at night were, it’s a very character-driven movie, and you have a lot of very, very long dialogue scenes, and often people are stationary, or we are locked into a certain kind of geography and finding ways to keep the movie cinematic. Also, working within our very confined schedule was a really new skill for me. So, I was learning a lot every day and a lot from my collaborators because we were just really blessed with extraordinarily experienced people around me who have done this way more than I have. I kind of really relied on them all the time to teach me and help me navigate all of this. It was a lot of firsts.
Max Minghella Wants to Work With Music Again in Future Films
Now the greedier question about more directing. Do you hope to get something else going soon? Obviously, some of the things that created that six-year gap betweenTeen SpiritandShellwere completely out of your control, but can I expect another feature film from you as a director in the near future?
MINGHELLA: I would certainly hope so. I would love for it not to be six years between movies. My father was a filmmaker, and he would equally take 100 years between projects. So, Ihopethat that’s not hereditary, and I hope that I can move faster. I’m certainly dying to keep making films. It is my great passion.
Will you keep leaning into genre storytelling?
MINGHELLA: Well, I’ve made two movies that are so wildly different from one another that even I’m not quite sure what I’ll make next. But there were certainly elements, I would say, ofTeen Spirit, my first movie, that I miss. Certainly working with music in that way. So, we’ll see.
I really wanted to end on this question because directing a movie is a massive feat. I find, in this business, no one tells themselves “good job” nearly enough. We give each other awards. That’s super cool. I think we should keep doing that. But, nobody gives themselves the credit they deserve, so what is something you accomplished makingShellthat you know you’ll be able to look back on and say, “I am so proud of what I did there?”
MINGHELLA: For an English person, that’s such a challenging question to answer. I’m not gonna make it an “I” one, so I’m gonna say that I think that “we” are so lucky to have gotten to make this film. I truly believe that. It’s such a privilege to get to tell stories like this. I’m very lucky I’ve now made two movies. I don’t officially have final cut on either of my movies, it doesn’t say that anywhere, and yet I’ve been protected by my collaborators and trusted by my collaborators to now make two movies with absolute autonomy. I am completely to blame for both of my first films, and I love that, and I know how lucky that is. I can’t take that for granted. I don’t know if that will always be the case, so I feel very privileged to have made two movies that are completely my own.
Down on her luck actress Samantha Lake is invited into the ultra-glamorous world of Zoe Shannon, CEO of wellness company SHELL. When SHELL patients begin to go missing, Samantha realizes Zoe may be protecting a monstrous secret.
