Mystery Science Theater 3000, that long-running, highly influential cult comedy TV show, is both wholly comforting and endlessly surprising. The central hook is a sticky one — a human and his two robot friends make fun of the worst movies ever made in a movie theater silhouette form — but it’s been modified slightly over the many networks its been on since its 1988 debut, including Minneapolis local TV, Comedy Central, Syfy, and Netflix.
Now, original series creator/hostJoel Hodgsonhas new designs for where to take the show next, and it involves creating theirownnetwork.MST3Kis back on Kickstarterto secure crowdfunding, but with different goals than when they successfully crowdfunded their Netflix seasons. I was lucky enough to speak with Hodgson over the phone about the goals of a new, independently-produced, crowd-fundedMST3K, including and especially the Gizmoplex platform that will be home to the show and foster a community among its fanbase. We talked about the joys of centralizing theMST3Kexperience, why working with a traditional TV network is like tricking a rich uncle, why the recent seasons had so much joyful music, and what kind of movies work the best for riffing. We also went into Hodgson’s relationship with the hosts that came in his wake,Mike Nelsonand current cast memberJonah Ray, and Hodgson’s wonderful cameo inFreaks and Geeks
KEEP READING:‘Mystery Science Theater 3000’ Team Unveils Kickstarter to Make More Episodes and Launch the Gizmoplex
COLLIDER: So last I checked you’re over three million bucks. And I’m wondering, what’s it like to have so many producers to answer to?
JOEL HODGSON: Well, that’s a really interesting way of putting it. It’s very exciting. I mean, we hit our goal faster than the last time, but that was just the first one. And it’s a little bit deceiving, because we’re really going for 12 episodes. So we’re a little less than 60%. So we’re working really harder. I wish it was rigged differently. I wish it was set up differently visually, because some people think we’ve already got our goal, and we haven’t, really. We’re going for $5.5 [million]. So we’re hoping we can get that far. We’re trying.
What prompted you to go to Kickstarter again? What do you feel like you gain from that versus a more traditionally funded or network-driven show?
HODGSON: There weren’t really clear networks to go to. It’s a very peculiar time. It wasn’t that clear. And so the easiest, best way was to go back and do what we did the last time. The last one was such an epiphany for us, doing a Kickstarter. I kind of had a feeling that [fans] were out there. The first one was based on doing all the shows with Cinematic Titanic; over a period of five or six years, we did 100 live shows. And I did the math. I thought, “Well, there’s enough people out there that are coming to these shows, that they could back us.” And what I learned from it was, it really clarified everything in a big way for us, as far as who our fans were, who wanted to get involved. And it made us famous then in a whole different new way for a lot of people that got us on their radar. And so, doing it again has had the same effect in a way. And I felt like we waited long enough, six years. And we worked really hard and did an extra season on Netflix, and we did live shows, and we did three really big tours, and we did a comic book. So we’ve been developing it the whole time. So we’ve done our best to makeMSTeven more dimensional and bigger.
You used the word “epiphany.” What are some of the epiphanies that come up with a more direct relationship with the fans? Is there more pressure? Do you feel more freedom? What does that feel like?
HODGSON: It’s really a good question. It’s funny the way you’re talking about it, because it makes me feel this funny thing. We always look at these networks like they’re our rich uncle, and we’re trying to manipulate our rich uncle to do what we want to do. And then the rich uncle dies, and you go, “Hey, you know what we always wanted to do? Let’s go out to eat, let’s go get pizza. We don’t have to talk him into it to buy any pizza. We can do it ourselves. We’re grown ups.” And so, I think that’s kind of the feeling in a way. I know that when I look at the boards for the Kickstarter, I feel like people are really entertained. And they’re not just entertained by what we’re working on, but they’re entertaining each other, and they’re amusing each other, and in really unique ways. I think they like each other. And so, that’s really fascinating. And the other really interesting wrinkle is that 50% of the people that are funding this weren’t involved with the last one. They’re all new people. They all, pretty much, came from the stuff we’ve done in the last six years. So that was really important for me, thatthatstuff worked and that it got new fans. It’s almost like this cultural thing now, where there’s a fair amount of old-timers that have been with us a long time, and then a fair amount of new people. I see that as a good thing, creatively and just culturally, for our fan base.
With this new crowdfunded version, are you still able to use the sets, the costumes, the pieces you made for the Netflix version? What is the transition process like?
HODGSON: Oh, that’s a great question. I mean, we have to produce it differently because of COVID. And so, there are obviously a lot of pieces — I guess we call them assets — we can use. So we’re looking at it like how much of that stuff can we use and how much of it do we have to do differently. I mean, I don’t exactly know. That’s a really good question. When we’re done with the Kickstarter, we’re going to lay everything out, when we know exactly how many shows we’re going to do. And then we’re going to make those determinations of what goes in. But again, all the costumes are the same. The backgrounds are the same. We’ll use elements from the theme song, things like that. It’s really interesting. I don’t think I have an answer exactly, because right after the Kickstarter, we set aside time to kind of see the arc of the new series, the new season together. And so, that’s when we’ll really make those decisions.
You might not have an answer for this yet, either, but you just mentioned all of the things coming back that are going to feel the same. What are some of the key things that are maybe going to feel different this go around? What’s exciting you or surprising you?
HODGSON: To me, the fun thing is thinking about the Gizmoplex and what that’s going to feel like. It’s a premier theater, it’s a premier platform, and that means we’re really going to make a big deal. The thing we kind of lost with Netflix was just the idea of a new show. It’s that trade off. Six years ago, Netflix was the biggest thing in the world and the biggest platform in the world. And we were really lucky that they wanted us to be on their platform, but the trade off was we dumped all these shows at once. And then it seemed like everyone was scattered. It was like the Tower of Babel, where everyone started to go at it a different way. Some people were like, “No, I’m only going to watch one show every two weeks, because I want it to last.” And some people are like, “I’m watching everything the first weekend.” It didn’t feel like they were able to remain in that kind of… I don’t want to say community, but that same field.
I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin. And so, the Packers were the biggest thing in the world, and it just shaped the way you behaved. And I’m still a Packer fan, and I just enjoy it, that I know that when the Packers are going to play, I announce to my family and say, “Okay, I’m going to be in front of the TV from 2:30 to 5:30. I would love you to join me, but I understand if you can’t. But I’m going to be there. And daddy’s going to have his scotch in his hand, and I’m making nachos.” So I want to try to do that with what’s happening withMST, where the premier theater is really identified to say that we exist in time, and we’re going to show this in time and all participate at the same time, rather than, “Oh, we’re just going to throw this, and this’ll be a menu, and it’ll just be a tile you click on, and you watch our content.” It’s not that. We’re looking forward [to having] more like a platform that feels likeMystery Science Theaterdoes. And our characters are occupied or employed in that and participating with that. So a little more immersive, maybe.
And to that level of community and immersion, does that mean that the Gizmoplex is going to have a Discord server feel? Are people going to be able to talk to each other while watching? What technically is it going to feel like?
HODGSON: There’s a lot of good tech options already out there, and we’re just going to combine our favorites to make something, but you will be able to watch shows together and chat. A lot of the people who bought shows [during] the last Kickstarter, those shows and the shows that they’re buying this Kickstarter will actually kind of reside in their own locker, so they can watch those movies whenever they want. And so, mostly what I’m focusing on is, like I said, the experience. That’s the way we have to do it, just because I feel like as we progress, the technology will change and become more available and more affordable as time goes on. So we’ll hopefully have things every year in success that will have features and things that can happen.
That’s so interactive, in a way that speaks to the concept of the show.
HODGSON: I can’t wait. I seriously can’t wait. And it is a theater, too. And so, over the years, theaters always had so many different, lovely things they were trying to do. As we were developing this, we looked at a lot of the kind of trailers and announcements that movie theaters would have. And they used to do stuff like, “Don’t make out during the movie. It’s not appropriate. Public displays of affection are frowned on.” Or encouraging people to go to church on Sunday, and all this stuff from drive-in movie theaters. “Don’t forget your speakers,” and “Go to the snack bar to eat this kind of pizza.” All that stuff is the stuff that is, in some ways, just as fun as the movie itself. And so, we’ve never gotten to touch that over 30 years. It’s always just, “Oh, well, if it’s on Syfy, let them handle it. If it’s on Comedy Central, let them handle it.” They always controlled the environment, and I don’t know if that’s the best way for people to get it. We should be controlling it. And so, it comes back to, this isn’t justourstory. This is about any show that’s been canceled that has a fan base that could start its own platform. You know what I mean? We’re just the vanguard of that, because we’re live enough, and we can do stuff like this. I mean, I don’t want to pull out a crystal ball, but I feel that this is logical, that other people will start doing this too, if we get it to work right.
I wanted to talk a little bit about what it’s been like for you to see other hosts in your wake. Right now, Jonah Ray is the host. Before that, Mike Nelson took over. I’m curious, what has that felt like to watch other people perform that role? Does it feel fun to watch it evolve? Has it ever been difficult?
HODGSON: The only reason I was the host [was] because I was the logical person to do it. I was the most famous, because we did the show locally in Minneapolis, but before that, I had a career. I was a stand-up onSaturday Night Liveand[Late Nightwith David] LettermanandYoung Comedians Special. So it was obvious I was the guy that needed to front it, but it’s not really my bag, exactly. I reluctantly did it. I don’t need to be in that spot, I just was the guy. It made the most sense. It was the most commercial way to proceed. So when it started to get kind hard for me politically at [former production company] Best Brains, that’s when I said, “It’s okay. I don’t got to be the guy. Let’s put somebody else in there.” And so, I was kind of happy, because the thing that I’m most proud of is the concept. You know what I mean? I think the thing that bothered me the most was people had this attachment, like, “Joel must be hurt he’s not the host.” And it was kind of like, I don’t really care. To me, what matters is that the show keeps rolling. And so, when Mike took over that role, I was good with it. I was like, “Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That’s fine.” The only thing that I was concerned about is we’re both these doughy white guys from the Midwest. That’s the only thing that I was stuck on. It was almost like the two Darrens onBewitchedkind of vibe to me. But other than that, I mean, I think he did a really good job, man. When I started doing [Thanksgiving dayMST3Kmarathon blocks] Turkey Days — I’ve probably been doing them for 10 years now — I had to curate them and go back, and I got to see all those Mike episodes. They were really good, man. They made me laugh, and I got to have that experience that everyone else did. I didn’t know any of the jokes, and I got to experience it from that position, which I really liked.
And then Jonah is so different in that he’s a lot younger than us. He’s easily 25 years younger than Mike or I. And so, it’s like he’s from a different generation. He absorbed the show completely different, he sees it completely different, and he just brings so much to it. The thing that I love about Jonah is he’s actually so much better with people than I am. He’s really good with people, and he loves being there and being involved. And I think I’m always just a little bit awkward, socially. But he’s genuinely graceful with people. And he’s got a really strong work ethic. He’s shockingly good with props, which is a really big thing for me, because the visual aspect ofMST, of course, is the biggest part of it. And he’s especially good with working with props. I mean, he’s almost at the level of an amateur magician at the stage, where I can show him what I need him to do, and he grasps it. He’s shockingly good at that. And I’ve worked with a lot of people, and he’s really good at that. And I think he’s a better actor. He’s way better. Both those guys are way better actors than I was. I was just trying to hold on. So they both were, in a way more talented [at] presenting it. And the thing that made sense for me was, I created it, I came up with it, and I really built the robots. I really did all the set dressing, the surface action on the sets and came up with a lot of the invention exchanges and stuff. So I think that got me to the dance, like, “Oh, he created it. It’s okay. We’re going to give him a pass. That’s fine.” But when they compare me to Mike, I go, “Yeah, of course. Fine. Yeah, Mike’s really good.” I don’t mind if people like Mike as a host more than me. That’s totally fine.
One thing I really loved about the Netflix seasons were the musical elements. I really love theStarcrashUFO tune, themonster one-take song. What was the prompt for having these fun, musical explosions? What was the process of putting them together? And are there going to be plans for more in this new version?
HODGSON: I think that comes from the Muppets, I got to say. I really think that for some reason the Muppets did it so good. I don’t know what it is, but puppetry and songs, I don’t know why, there’s something so cheerful and fun about it. It’s really great, and I love it so much. And songs are such good joke delivery systems that they’re kind of unbelievable, the way you can arrange jokes into a song and the way it works. I can’t get over how great it is. I love it. And it kind of is relaxing, because we worked with really good songwriters. And that’s really a big part of it, too. It’s kind of like Christmas. We got to work with Bobby Lopez. He wrote a couple of songs. And Paul and Storm are brilliant, and they wrote a bunch of our songs.
“Every Monster” was really fascinating. I’m so proud of that. And it was really funny, because the other day we had to screen “Every Monster Has a Country.” And Sharyl and Matt and I — both Sharyl Volpe and Matt McGinnis are producers on this show and writers on the show, and we work together every day, and we have for the last six years since we’ve started doing this show — we just watched “Every Monster.” And we were in Zoom, and I’m looking at them both, and they just had these big smiles on their faces. And we’re so proud of it, because I knew that we had to win people over. It was the very first sketch, and it was really going for broke, and it worked. I felt like I wanted to get something that would quickly get the audience to sign off on Jonah and the Bots and our production, and I think it worked really good. And the process for that was really an idea I had, like, “Reptilicus is Denmark’s national monster. So what are the other national monsters attached to each country?” And so, it started with that, and I just went online and found this website that listed [for example] Mexico has the chupacabra, and then we’ve got Bigfoot in Seattle. And so every country has a monster. And so we made this list, and then handed it over to Paul and Storm and said, “Can you make a rap song out of this list of monsters?” And then they went and did their thing with it and then added a whole bunch of other ideas. So it just came back, and then they played it for us. And I was just knocked out. And so, that was the experience. But long story short, in some ways, it’s that kind of writing that makes the show much easier, because you don’t have the usual kind of things you need to do. You don’t have to carry the exposition as hard in those kinds of sketches.
I wanted to ask you one non-MST3Kquestion. I wanted to touch on your"Superstud" role inFreaks and Geeks. That’s such a fun character. I’d love to know how you got involved with that, if that guy was based on someone from your real life. What has the legacy of being that guy been like?
HODGSON: Oh my God. Well, that’s a really great question because I’m friends with both those guys, Paul Feig and Judd Apatow. And Paul Feig and I had very similar childhoods. He was from Michigan, and I was from Wisconsin. So if you look on the map, they’re almost parallel from each other. And the thing that separates us is Michigan. And it’s really funny, but Feig and I were both teenage magicians. And we both found out that we’re the same age and we almost, at the same time, bought powder blue jumpsuits to do magic in, okay? So that’s where it started, right? And it was so weird and so effed up, because I remember going down to the Pranges, the big store in Green Bay, because I heard they had these… I mean, in the show, they called it the Parisian night suit, but it was a jumpsuit. But here’s what was going on in music. It was because of The Who, it was because of Pete Townshend. So Pete Townshend would wear a jumpsuit. And it was when rock guys were wearing jumpsuits, and it looked real badass. And I remember thinking, “I’m going to do magic in a jumpsuit.” And Feig had the same idea. And I bought it, and I brought it home, and I put it on, and I looked so stupid I never wore it again. But I think one day, we were just talking about it. And then the next thing I know, they’d written the show about the Parisian night suit and they wanted me to be the guy who’s selling it. So that’s kind of how it happened. And then they reprised my character too, which I was really happy about. They had me show up and I was the disco DJ at the bowling alley. So they kind of put a little button on my character, which I really thought was great. I really appreciated it.
I’m just curious, in your estimation, is it possible or is it comedically viable to riff on a “good movie”?
HODGSON: Yeah. I mean, it’ll work with anything. I mean, it doesn’t work with comedies exactly, especially if they’re successful comedies, because then you’d just be trying to be more funny than the movie. So we tend not to do comedies. We did a few that were so very dated that it worked okay. But yeah, seriously, you may movie riff anything if you have the right attitude. I think so.
It’s funny, I feel pretty confident. I mean, we have a really nice, deep bench now, after doing those 20 shows on Netflix. And on top of that, we produced six other movies for the live tour. So we’ve made 26 feature-length episodes. We have a deep bench of writers, and they’re all very different, and we have just nice, normal people that are really gifted that I’ve met over the years, that you’ve never heard of, that are writing on the show, but are brilliant. And so, we have a really deep bench and I feel like no matter what we put in there, if it was a really good movie, that would work, but I think in some ways, the way the formula works best to me is that we find these kind of forgotten movies that you feel like you probably would never see normally, and that we would then enhance them and make them more fun to watch than normal. It’s kind of a guided experience. It’s kind of like going in a haunted house with someone who has been there before, but maybe willing to try to scare you, too. So we’re kind of like guides into these weird movies that you wouldn’t normally see. And I’ve been in lots of meetings with executives that say, “Yes, the secret is to get the most famous movie we can find and then you riff on it.” But then you start to go, “Well, is it really the same? And does it maintain its structural integrity if it’s something that people really want to watch?” It slightly changes it, I think. And not to say it wouldn’t work, but it really changes the dynamic of what we’re known for.
Oh, the one thing, too, that I don’t think we talked about, that I really want to make a point about is where we’re at with the Kickstarter. We still aren’t really there yet. What I’ve been learning from talking to people is they think we’ve already made our nut, and we really haven’t, we’re halfway there, or a little more than halfway there. So I just wanted to mention that, that we’re still in pursuit of trying to get to $5.5 million, really. So we’re doing good, but it’s not certain we’ve got it yet. I’ve been behaving like we’re going to get it, but I want you to alter that in your article. Could you make me more desperate? More whiny?
Yeah. We’ll put in parentheses, [sweating heavily through the phone].
HODGSON: “Joel is really concerned, and it seemed like he was crying before he got on the phone.”
“I could hear the glass of scotch shaking in his hand as he talked to me.”
HODGSON: “It wasn’t even a Sunday Packers game.”
Contribute to the newMystery Science Theater 3000Kickstarter here, at the very least to stop Joel Hodgson from crying so much.
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