Audiences love the winning combination ofGerard Butlerand filmmakerChristian Gudegast. Having co-writtenLondon Has Fallen, and executive producedPlane, Gudegast has an unbelievable sense of which environments audiences want to see Butler kicking ass. Now, as writer and director of theDen of Thievesfranchise, Gudegast blows up his Butler-led, heist-filled universe with great passion and an eye for expansion and evolution. Along with producerTucker Tooley, Gudegast pilots the second chapter of the wildly entertaining seriesDen of Thieves 2: Pantera, only in theaters.
A direct sequel to the original,Den of Thieves 2: Panterafollows Butler’s Sheriff “Big Nick” O’Brien as he travels to Europe on Donnie Wilson’s (fan favoriteO’Shea Jackson Jr.) trail. Soon, they both find themselves embroiled with the Panther mafia as they explore a treacherous world of diamond thieves plotting a massive heist. The film co-stars Kurdish actressEvin Ahmad(Who Is Erin Carter?) and Italian actorSalvatore Esposito(Fargo).
Gudegast and Tooley spoke with Collider’s ownSteve Weintraubto discuss all thingsDen of Thieves. During their conversation, they reveal how they made a diamond-heist thriller based on an unbelievable amount of truth, the process of researching the film’s story, which is a “compilation of actual heists,” tech details, as well as their shared desire to makeBlack Flag, a 17th-century thrilling pirate epic.
Which Comic Books Did Christian Gudegast Collect?
COLLIDER:I’m here at a CCXP in Brazil, and everyone here collects something. For both of you, is there anything that you collect or used to collect?
CHRISTIAN GUDEGAST: Yes! X-Men, Avengers, Ghost Rider, Aquaman — Aquaman was big — Silver Surfer.
You’re talking about comics, right?
GUDEGAST: Comics, yeah.
TUCKER TOOLEY: For me, it’s baseball cards. I started collecting when I was a kid, so I have a good collection.
Both comic books and baseball cards have gotten more popular again.
TOOLEY: Yes. Thankfully.
Which Marvel Characters From the Comics Should Join the MCU?
Despite not quite soaring to the heights of the Infinity War era, the MCU is showing no signs of slowing down as Marvel boss Kevin Feige prepares to drop several major announcements next weekend at SDCC. While on the press tour for Deadpool & Wolverine, Feige revealed that Richard Rider aka Nova is finally coming to the MCU with his own TV series. Between this new addition, Wolverine himself, and the upcoming Fantastic Four movie, I want to know which Marvel comics characters — that we haven’t seen on screen yet — are you dying to see join the MCU?
If you could get the financing to make anything you want, what would you make and what? Do you have a great script that you’ve never been able to get off the ground?
GUDEGAST:Black Flag. It’s a pirate epic that we’re gonna make one of these days. It’s a big movie. It’s the 17th century Indian Ocean and a true story about the East India Trading Company. Yeah, it ain’t cheap.
No, it’s not cheap.
TOOLEY: But it’s epic. It’s great.
Oh, so this is both of you? You both have been trying to make this film.
TOOLEY: Yep.
Christian Gudegast Befriended Real Diamond Thieves and Police
“The important thing for me is to never be atouristin the world.”
Moving onto why I get to talk to you guys. Did you know when you were making the first film that, “Oh, we could actually do a sequel to this?” Or was it after it did pretty well at the box office and it came out?
TOOLEY: It was by design.
GUDEGAST: By design from the very beginning. In researchingDen 1, we came acrossso muchmaterial of all kinds of different heists, and met so many people, both on the gangster and thief side and on the law enforcement side. Amazing characters.We knew we had material for a season’s worth of a show.It’s almost like as we progress in this franchise, it’s like another mini-season. We just have too much great material to stop now. So it’s always been by design. We’ll continue on.
I love heist movies and car chases, but I’m always curious, what is it like to actually writethe heistof a movie? Because you need to make it believable and for the audience to be like, “Oh, that’s actually possible.” You still have to come up with all the beats.
GUDEGAST: Really, it’s a function of one thing: research and linking up with, in this case, the guys in Europe that were part of what’s called the Diamond Police, that was a part of Interpol, part of the Belgian Federal Police, and working with those officers. They opened up their case files, and I went over there, working for weeks and weeks, and went to all the places where the heist took place. I saw the places, walked through how it was done.
At the same time, on the other side, I met with all the thieves themselves throughout Europe. I talked to them, understood who they are, what makes them tick, their skill sets, why they do what they do.When you do that amount of research, it basically writes itself.All the little gems reveal themselves, and you weave them together. Next thing you know, you have a very compelling heist.
If you don’t mind, I have to do a follow-up. How hard is it to do interviews with people who have pulled off heists? Do they want to talk, or do you have to convince them?
GUDEGAST: That’s a very good question. I’ll answer that as specifically as I can because I’ve done it quite a bit with people from all different walks of life. If it’s illicit, what they did, they’re very closed off at first. They’re very guarded. That’s why the important thing for me is to never be atouristin the world. Not be a guy like, “Hey, I’m a writer from Hollywood. Let’s go meet at Starbucks, and tell me your story in an hour.” It doesn’t work that way.You have to really develop a relationship with them.I’ve been fortunate enough to become friends with a lot of these guys. They’re buddies of mine now.
You have to spend a lot of time,a lot of time, and then eventually, they trust you. Then, when they trust you, it really starts coming out, and that’s where you get all the sexy details. Before that, you just get cursory stuff that you’ve seen in other movies. We’re not doing that with theDenfranchise. We’re going much, much deeper, much more holistic and real, and really getting down to the real reality of it all.
‘Den of Thieves 2’ Is Closer To Truth Than You May Think
“Truth is always more interesting than fiction.”
This might be a reach, but is there something in the movie that people are gonna think, “That’s not real,” but it actually really happens?
TOOLEY: I think there are aspects of the heist that people will say, “Oh, that’s impossible!” or, “They wouldn’t have done it that way,” or, “That wouldn’t have happened.” It’s a compilation of actual heists that have happened, but 100% of those are real.Truth is always, or many times, more interesting than fiction.I think all the research that Christian did and finding out what really happened in these different heists will make people think, “Nah, that’s impossible. That wasn’t real.” But it is.
GUDEGAST: Some of the technology people will see used in the film, we actually worked with the companies that make that technology. They became partners of ours, and I think people will be blown away by some of the aspects of it.
I’m fascinated by the editing process because it’s obviously where it all comes together. What did you guys learn from early friends and family screenings or any test screenings that impacted the finished film?
GUDEGAST: More quickly, we were with Nick. We really wanted to establish where Nick was emotionally in L.A., where he was in his life before we sent him off to Europe, because he makes such a turn. We felt that we needed to really establish him so that it’s believable why he goes to the other side. But what we realized through the early screenings and through the beginning of the edit was that we neededlessof what we thought we needed on the page, on the script. We can accelerate. We can be a little morepropulsiveon our journey to Europe.
TOOLEY: I would say the other thing is that they love the chemistry between Big Nick and Donnie, O’Shea and Gerard Butler. That was a huge stand-out from the first test screening.
They’re what we call: “Pretty good together.”
TOOLEY:[Laughs] Yeah, they are. To say the least.
In the first movie and in this movie, did you end up with a lot of deleted scenes or is it one of these things where there wasn’t much?
GUDEGAST: There are quite a few. One of them will be coming out pretty soon.
TOOLEY: The 19th, actually.
GUDEGAST: On the 19th as a sort of little special for people to see. Look, they’re just mandates in terms of running time with theatrical run, all that kind of stuff. As a filmmaker, you’re like, “No, I want it to be four hours long,” but that’s not the reality. You have to kill some of your babies, as they say, and that’s never easy. But the end result is then what’s there is a highlight reel of what you shot, right? So, it ends up working out.
Could We Be Getting a Longer Cut of ‘Den of Thieves 2’?
“If it’s good content, who cares what the running time is?”
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your cut that you had that you were like, “It’s never getting shorter than this?”
TOOLEY: I can answer that because I was on the receiving end of it. Two hours and 46 minutes.
For the sequel?
TOOLEY: That was the cut that we were like, “It’s never getting shorter.” Then, we actually made it a lot shorter. [Laughs]
First of all, as a fan of the franchise —because it’s now a franchise —I’d love to see that cut.
GUDEGAST: Thank you. Thank you! See? Thank you. [Laughs]
I understand the theatrical component. Not everyone isme. I get it. But for fans, I would love to see the longer version if you do Blu-ray or something.
TOOLEY: The studio’s watching this right now, and they’re hearing what you say, and we’ll go tell them.
I’m being so serious with you. Why not releasethe longer version on Blu-ray for people? you’re able to watch the theatrical cut, or you can watchthiscut. What’s the difference?
GUDEGAST: Great minds think alike, brother. I’m with you. I think people are used to — putting movie theaters aside for a second — they’re so used to streaming and binging things. They’re watching 10 hours of something, and they sit there and watch in one frickin’ night. If it’s good content, who cares what the running time is, right? I’m talking for me, personally. I’m not talking about theatrical releasing and distribution — that’s an animal in and of itself. But for me, I’ve never thought of the running time of a film in my life, whether it’s an amazing horror movie that’s 82 minutes or it’sApocalypse Now.If it’s a great movie, I don’t think about how long it is.I never thought about how longHeatwas orRaging Bull. I don’t care. If it’s great, it’s great. I mean,The Irishman. I loveThe Irishman. People are like, “It’s so long!” Well, it’s phenomenal.
14 of the Longest Movies of the Past Decade, Ranked by Runtime
Brace yourself for a long time at the movies!
Again, I agree with you. TV has gotten more popular than ever because they have more time with the characters.
GUDEGAST: Yes.
One of the problems with a two-hour movie, if I canbe so blunt, is you lose the quiet moments between characters that exist in a longer cut. Let me give you an example:The Batman. It’s three hours, but it’sfuckingawesome because of all thequietmoments.
TOOLEY: Yeah.
GUDEGAST: Exactly correct. The thing is, when you have those quiet moments, you’re informing that the big moment is to come. If you’re more emotionally invested, it makesthatmoment land much stronger.
Den of Thieves 2: Panterais in theaters now.
Den of Thieves 2: Pantera
Big Nick is back on the hunt in Europe and closing in on Donnie, who is embroiled in the treacherous world of diamond thieves and the infamous Panther mafia, as they plot a massive heist of the world’s largest diamond exchange.
